Beyond the Stethoscope: A Doctor's Journey to Finding Her Vision with Sarah Breen, DO

2023-11-18 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCD4fPltwJA Transcript YouTube English auto-captions. Hey guys, this is Dr. Mike Woo Ming. Welcome to another edition of Boot Strap MD. This is the podcast for healthcare and physician entrepreneurs. You know, from time to time we spotlight physicians who are kind of going outside of the box, starting their own businesses, or working in other businesses. And this is certainly no exception, and I'm really excited to bring her on. She's a board-certified pediatrician. She's been practicing general peds in the north suburbs of Chicago since 2011. After being fully immersed in the entrepreneur world by her husband, Justin Breen, Sarah fell in love with the Our Epic Network and became came the chief operating officer this year in 2023. In 2023, she enjoys spending time with her two sons, exercising her three doodles, and traveling the world with her husband, Justin. Now, if that name sounds familiar, we actually had him on the program uh just a few episodes ago. And we thought it'd be a great opportunity to learn about his other half, Justin would say his better half, and who someone who actually happens to be a physician and actually kind of traversing in this world of this world which she most likely didn't have a lot of exposure to, at least I know in medical school we hardly get any business experience at all. So, I'd like to welcome to the program Dr. Sarah Breen. Sarah, how are you doing today? I am great. Thanks for having me. Well, thanks. Yeah, so I I met Justin at a at a mastermind. We were sitting um at a table and uh uh just talking about all of his different experiences and Andy mentioned that's when he first mentioned that his one of his real superpowers it is you his wife and uh and I I think was kind of pulling you in to to kind of his world and might maybe it took some cajoling and you finally decided to do it. So, I want to talk about kind of your upbringing, you know, uh first let's talk about why you became a physician and and then specialize in pediatrics. Sure. Um so, I always say if there was anything else that I wanted to do, I would have gone into it. I just absolutely loved medicine from the beginning. I actually thought I was going to be a veterinarian. So, from 7th grade on, I did a lot of volunteering with different pet hospitals and um different sizes of animals because you know, you have to get everything in so that looks good on your resume. Um president of the pre-vet society at WashU, fully into veterinary medicine and when I started to apply, I second-guessed myself. I shadowed a um family friend who was an ER physician and I absolutely loved it and I felt like I was doing the veterinary stuff because I had to and I really enjoyed shadowing for humans. So, completely changed my mind, uh went to medical school, kept an open mind until rotations, but you know, veterinary medicine, pediatrics has some similarities. So, not fully surprising to anyone. I fell in love with pediatrics, general peds, and um never second-guessed myself. Love the love the choice I made. I love animals, obviously. I have three dogs now, but um I am really, really happy and um have been in pediatrics. So, tell me about your your pediatric practice. How how is it organized? How how does it work? Sure. So um I'm still lucky enough to be in a private practice. Um we are not owned by anyone. We are just associated with two different hospitals. Um so I think that makes a big difference in some of the choices that we'll probably talk about later. Um it is a bigger group as well. So there are um about 10 of us right now. So we have two different locations and I started part time or I'm sorry, I started full time right out of residency. I worked 10 years of full time, dropped to part time during COVID, and um dropped more part time as I started um to work in my husband's business. So I work two days a week now um in the office and then I split call and rounding with my partners. So let's talk about your journey from clinical duties to non-clinical duties. Uh your your current work with your husband. Tell me first like how did that start? You know, when did he first kind of mention it to you or did you mention it to him? How did that How did that all begin? That is a great question. So we were at a couple's connection weekend for one of his mastermind groups. It's the third time we've been. Um and it Every time that I've been to it, I couldn't put a name to it, but I had trouble transitioning from that meeting back to what I call normal life. Um as I was sitting there this time, it truly was a snap decision. Um there I mean I'm sitting in a room of entrepreneurs and some of them working with their spouses, some of them without. And for those of you who did listen to my husband's podcast and have already figured out in the first 5 seconds, we are very different, especially at communication. Um and I've always known, of course, that we're very different, but I realized that my weaknesses are his strengths and my strengths are his weaknesses. And so, I thought, wait a minute. I could probably help you communication-wise, and you know, we could do something together. And so, it was 100% my idea. Neither of us ever had thought about it before. Um I grew up you go to college, you go to med school, you, you know, get a job and you that's how you're going to be until you retire. So, it never even occurred to me that there was not a straight line path because that is always been my mentality is just go. Um I think a lot of us just go. And um it just it just took off from there. So, um I decided to work with him. He has two companies. This is his second business that was not off the ground. They had two visionaries trying to figure out how to run this, but nobody to actually do it. And so, I was able to start it and do it. So, for those physicians who are listening to it right now, and I've tried to um explain the difference between a conference where you're getting CME that you're going to versus a conference of entrepreneurs. Can you can you kind of uh know, set the stage of of like what to expect because I've explained it a few times, but for those who haven't been to a conference that didn't require you to get continuous medical education credits, how different are they? I mean, entirely. So, the goal of this is to almost use business-like strategies to determine your future. Um so, you talk about your one-year plan, your five-year plan, your 10-year plan, and it's both as a couple, as in business, your family, um, different goals you have, you know, setting goals for yourself. It's all about inner work, and a lot of it are things that I find the most fascinating are the things that I'm bad at. Um, I'm not good at future planning, neither actually neither of us are. So, to set a one, a five, and a 10-year goal was very hard for us and something we've never done, which is great for us. Um, there's a lot more communication that goes on. So, they have you do this and then you break into groups and you talk about it with other people. And I have to say that those other people are the reason my life changed. I talked to another couple and I was talking about, you know, a goal of a new house or a bigger kitchen or, you know, that kind of thing. And this, you know, one of the entrepreneurs, he looked at me and he said, "Sarah, he said, I know your husband and I know what he's going to do in this world. I think you need to think bigger than what you're thinking right now." And that has stuck with me. Um, and it made me see a bigger future than what I've been thinking. You know, it's just it's just not how I think at all. So, it's people who are just so completely, you know, different and helpful in their own ways and they look at things from the outside and help you. It has nothing to do with sitting there listening to someone talk about, you know, over, you know, it's it's all about the, um, As a doctor, I wasn't used to asking for help, especially when it came to subjects outside of medicine. But then, I found physiciancoaches.com. In an instant, I found hundreds of experts to help me in all aspects of life. On I was afraid to ask. Dealing with burnout, starting a side gig, money management, even help with my marriage. And the best part? Nearly all experts are physicians themselves. After reading their profile and a quick chat, I knew I found the right mentor for me. At physiciancoaches.com, help from professional colleagues is Now, you had mentioned that like as physicians, you know, we we kind of have a linear path, right? Like you said, if you want to get into to become a doctor, you're going to do well in school, you're going to take the the MCAT or some type of medical boards to get into medical school, you then, you know, do well in in in residency to get into the specialty that you want. Um so, it's kind of dictated. Sure. When you go into business, not so. And one of the difficulties that many physicians have to kind of traversing into the business world is overcoming risk. We're not trained to be uh involved in risk. We're risk-averse, right? As physicians. Did you have any uh difficulty with that, going into the unknown? Yes. Definitely. Um that is also something that um yes, that's something that we struggle with. All of us, I think. Um and I part of the reason I was able to one is because Justin is very much a risk-taker that has helped me take a little bit more risk, for sure. Um he's helped me, you know, mentally take a little bit more risk. I obviously did it slowly from my path of, you know, I kept working three days a week in the beginning and just also, you know, working as the COO and then eventually dropped a day, and also I still am doing both. So, I wouldn't say it was a huge risk, um but also I believed in the company. So, this company, I mean, it's it's a great idea. I wanted to see it, and honestly doing this is really fun for me, being a COO, meeting with entrepreneurs. I mean, our our entire company is based on visionaries who are, you know, serving humanity. So, it's all it's all about people helping people, which is still, you know, it's it's not far off. I talk to people all day. I'm good communicator because of, you know, because of my training, and you know, high-level people are they're just very fascinating. So, you know, I I understand the risk portion is hard, um but I do carry the insurance. I do That was the whole thing when he started his business was that it wasn't as of a risk for him because I was working full-time, carried the insurance. You know, it was not as risky as a lot of entrepreneurial journeys, but it was terrifying for me to make the mental leap because my identity is associated with being a physician. Um you know, you've got your family, your friends, everyone has something to say. Um and so, it it's just it's hard, but you going inward and looking at the bigger picture and the big goals, I mean, it's worth it. Now, when I talked with Justin, you know, he he talks about finding visionaries. And he also was very up front about what his, you know, weaknesses were. And uh we talked about Kolbe scores, where his strengths lied, and and and and where his uh where he was weak. You had intimated that where he was weak you found strength. What were exactly those strengths and were those strengths um also derived from you being a physician? Um definitely. So um communication for sure. Um he people who love him love him, but he is not the easiest to understand sometimes. I would say he doesn't answer questions completely. Um you probably noticed that. There's it's people who will get him get him and love him. But most of the world doesn't understand him and are very confused by him. So they may think that he's coming off aggressive. Um but that's just how he is. And so I my strengths are communication. I talk to people every day. I talk to worried parents. Worried parents are the most stressed out people in the whole world. So, you know, I I find you know, for sure that has helped me. Plus just going to medical school and dealing with surgeons, angry people yelling at you when you're holding something wrong. I mean, I was definitely uh definitely not the same person before I started medical school as I was after and I found strength, you know, in myself. You have to. You have to find strength in yourself going through medical school, not sleeping through residency, um you know, and all of that. So definitely our biggest differences are is our communication. Yeah, I and I can share with you kind of a personal experience with your husband. That he'll get a kick out of it. I hardly ever heard of this before. Uh you know, I'm a as a physician I own I have employees in my own practice. You know, physicians, let's face it, sometimes we're we're coddled at a certain level, right? So, when someone comes up to you and and says something that is a little bit shocking to you. Um, that was definitely uh very interesting. So long story short, at the mastermind that I was in, we had like a an icebreaker and so they they took us to a they wanted a bowling tournament and Justin was on my team. And I hadn't bowled in in years, Sarah. So I I didn't take offense to this. So as I got up and I Did he get nervous? And went straight into the gutter and it was a pattern that kind of you know, kind of kind of occurred during the evening and then just after a couple of frames he says, Mike, you are the most horrible bowler I've ever met in my entire life. This is within 20 minutes of actually meeting Justin. And I was taken aback. Nobody talks to me like that, but you know, but like I said, I have you know, I kind of understand because I have a son who's kind of similar in that very direct and from that we became friends and led to this podcast. So but yeah, so I have personal experience with that as well. I'm sorry. I get it every day, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So with the communication, you know, it sounds like you know, talking to you know, you you're as a pediatrician, right? You often talk to individuals who can't speak, obviously, so or difficulty you know, um communication and and doing that. So that's great. So talk to me about um you know, when you decided to go, you were already working part-time. Was that it was that a grand old transition? Did you have to talk to your your current colleagues about what you're trying to do or is this kind of you doing it on your own? How does that that work? Because that's often a big topic of discussion for physicians who want to do something outside of their norm. Yeah, you know, and I'm not very good at confrontation or dealing with with things like that. So, um I definitely again had to go inward and say, you know what, this is about me. Um and I want to be 100% honest because also Justin is a big um social media person. So, I don't want there ever to be anything where it comes back that I wasn't honest or, you know, um and you know, it's it is what it is. So, yeah, I I I went in early to early being, you know, school physical season is the summer. So, the summer is very busy. Um I have built up over 12 years at this practice a good patient populate I mean, I love, you know, I have a lot of patients. I um so, my boss wasn't thrilled um that I was cutting back. Um but you know, I mean, I said, "Listen, you know, I have two kids um who are in elementary school, who are in sports, who are, you know, busy, too. I, you know, I want to be around for them. I'm also, you know, right now helping Justin start this company. Um and I need to drop a day. So, I just went in with, you know, quick easy facts and um you know, and I and I also gave him time. I said, "Listen, I know the summer's busy. I'm fully booked. I get that. I will not drop until August when the kids go back to school. Um so that I don't want to mess things up here, either. So, it was timing, too. We had just hired two new physicians, so that was a win. Um and I said, "If you want me to leave earlier so they can fill up, that's fine, too." Um that was a hard no. So, you know, so it's been fine. I mean, again, because we split call and rounding evenly, um you know, I don't think I mean it it doesn't really impact people too too much that way. My patients, unfortunately, it does. They have a harder time getting in with me. But I really still love doing both for now. So, you know, obviously both parties would like me to do one. But it's really not up to them. So, as much as you know, I mean, I'm happy doing both. I'm happy Like I said, I love being the COO of the company. I absolutely love it. I love working from home. I love talking to people all day. But I also still really enjoy going to work and, you know, I love my staff and I love my patients. So, for now, I'm happy doing both. So, you've got the your your job as a pediatrician, your your job you know, heading up this company, and obviously you're wife and and mom. You know, what is how do you balance all those things? I mean, can you talk about it and maybe like what is your kind of current day? How do you split it split all these different duties up? Yeah, good question. Number one is I work out every day. I make time for myself every single morning. That's how I start my day. I would I will get up an hour two hours before, you know, the kids get up or if they're you know, if it's a day I'm home, then I will work out as soon as I get them off to school, but I'll block my schedule because working out and taking care of myself is most important. And I also have set boundaries. So, you know, I try not to do meetings on Mondays because otherwise my entire life is, you know, meetings and you know, I try I really try to block time so that because I do. I mean, I'm also doing all the laundry. I did three loads of laundry this morning, taking the dogs to the groomer, doing, you know, you know, cooking and and taking the kids everywhere. So, um it's not just two jobs, it's everything else, too. So, I try to um set boundaries in during the week, and also um actually, I told my husband, who doesn't take days off, um I won't respond to him work-wise on Sundays. So, I literally won't respond to him. I won't respond because it is it's even harder with your spouse um because they're right there. And um I just want to spend time with my family. That's part of the reason I'm, you know, doing something outside of medicine because um I want more time with my family. I want to be home. I want to be able to drive them to soccer. That's something I really, really want. My kids are literally the most important things in the world to me. So, um I'm not going to let this take over that. Let's talk about the company. You know, what what's involved? Um you know, you say you talk to to visionaries quite a bit of time. Give us more information about this. Oh, absolutely. Um Brevity Network is a connectivity platform, a vetted, highly vetted connectivity platform exclusively for visionaries who are changing the world, who just want to meet, connect, and collaborate with those doing the same. So, it's truly a group of the most amazing, you know, visionaries on the planet. It's global. We have members in Chile, Saudi Arabia, bunch in Canada, US, Abu Dhabi. Um we have someone who's about to sign from uh um Oh my gosh. Australia. I was going to say Alaska. Australia. Um So, they're all over the planet, any sort of um vertical, it doesn't matter. It's all about high-character, high-quality people who literally just want to connect and collaborate. So, this group is just people who are, you know, motivated to connect with anyone and see what comes from it, which is really cool. Um, we have a connection platform that's exclusively ours, and we also have um, a monthly mastermind that we put together as well. We now offer it three times a month because we want them to be interactive. Again, we don't want someone talking to us for 90 minutes. Um, the goal is interaction, and the meetings are not about businessy type things. They're about issues that entrepreneurs face, especially doctors, like imposter syndrome. We've all been through that. Um, you know, showing up as your true self, really and truly being present. Um, how to show up to meetings. So, it's it's really the bigger picture is what we we talk through. Um, and it's almost exclusively Zoom because everyone is global, but we are um, having in-person events as well just to increase the connections. Um, but it's been really, really awesome so far. So, can physicians become visionaries and might be interested in this this group? Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, it's all about the, you know, where your brain is. It's, you know, we do have some physicians. We have physicians working on longevity. We have dentists, publishers, podcasters. We have an artist. It's literally, you know, um, across the board, and you never What fascinates me the most is you never know who you talk to that's going to change your life. And so, the people that are connecting within the network who are forming new businesses are sometimes shocking to me because you would think they would have nothing in common, but you just never know unless you talk to people. And where can I go to find more information about BrePek? Um, we have the brepeknetwork.org uh, website. So, it's brepeknetwork.org, and the website also has my contact information, so you can connect connect with me right through the website. Sarah, this has definitely been enlightening. Thank you for sharing your journey. Maybe you can give us give advice to a doctor out there who's listening to this. Maybe they're they're working right now. We find that a lot of our our listeners are listening to this in the car or maybe they're listening it to it at lunch. You know, they're they're working a lot. Maybe you know, they're they're happy with their job, but they're looking for something else or maybe they're a little bit dissatisfied and maybe looking for a new opportunity, but they're not quite ready to do it. You know, that was your story. You know, I think definitely res will resonate with a lot of our listeners. What do you say to that someone who's like he's thinking about it, but just not ready not sure if it this is the right time or not. How do they know? Yeah, sure. I think you never really know. I think you have to go with your gut and your heart. I think if you know, and you don't necessarily ever know what's 100% right for you, but if you're feeling like trying it, I mean you as far as I know, you only live once and nobody has to do the same thing for the rest of their life, which is what we're all kind of programmed to think about. And so why not try it? I mean, you'll always have your medical degree behind you. You never know what doors are going to open after that and I think it's it makes life more fun to try new things and you know, just go with your gut. Sarah, thank you again for joining us on the show. The website again is brepicnetwork.org. and we'll put that in the show notes and your contact information if you want to reach out to her. She is gladly allowing you allowing us to do that. Again, thank Thank coming on the call and spending time with today. Thank you so much for having me. This was fun. Thank and thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting the show. If you're a physician right now, maybe you're you're starting a side gig or maybe you're you're still considering it. Like you said, if you have a story to tell, maybe there's a bigger mission that that's out there for you that maybe you're currently not fulfilling. Entrepreneurship may be the answer for you. Again, thanks again for supporting Oh.