The Physician's Guide to Commercial Real Estate with Colin Carr

2024-01-06 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOKKjwKxjGg

Transcript
YouTube English auto-captions.

[Music] hey guys this is Dr Mike wiing welcome to another edition of bootstrap MD this is the podcast for healthcare and physician entrepreneurs I know you guys love when we discuss real estate so I thought it was it's been too long for us to find a truly a commercial real estate uh expert and I believe I found one uh this gentleman has successfully completed over a thousand commercial real estate transactions while saving his clients hundreds of millions of dollars he founded

and scaled car a n Nationwide commercial real estate company to exclusively represent the unique needs and interests of Health care providers he's mastered several different niches in the healthcare real estate industry and he's passionate about helping others he calls it through maximizing propability through real estate today his company is the nation's leading Healthcare real estate adviser with a team of almost 150 experts that spend Coast to Coast every year thousands of healthcare providers trust this company to help them achieve the

most favorable terms on their leases and purchase negotiations so we're going to discuss everything commercial real estate with my interview today with Mr Colin Carr Colin how are you doing today I'm doing excellent thanks for having me thanks well thanks for reaching out uh we've been looking for a commercial real estate expert I know my audience anytime we talk about real estate I look at the downloads and so I know this is a topic that'll be of interest so a little

bit of about background about yourself I read your introduction maybe maybe you can talk about you know how you got into commercial real estate yeah absolutely so I'll try to give the short version um I met had a gentleman when I was 18 that uh that owned a bunch of apartment complexes and so I started just doing a little bit of work here and there for him and uh that was my entrance into Property Management um I I did Property Management

on mostly multifamily for a number of years and then I got my uh my real estate broker license when I was in my early 20s and uh started working for a guy that did uh mostly large National retailers so Walmart Wendy's Blockbuster like large National brand you'd recognize and so um uh that was my entrance Into The Brokerage side of things couple years later I got into more office and Industrial and after uh you know doing a couple hundred transactions being

around things for for quite a while um I just settled into the health care space and started focusing exclusively on healthc care and that was basically the beginning of 2009 started our current company called car and uh we are now coming up on our 15th year anniversary here uh shortly uh we represent Healthcare Providers with anything with their real estate so buying real estate renegotiating leases scaling to multiple offices relocating anything with real estate for your practice we specialize in and

you know we have the privilege of representing several thousand Healthcare Providers every year and so you you talked about your uh and again thank you for that any particular reason why uh Healthcare and I know you've speaking at some uh prominent conferences like mgma these are you know these are pretty big associations any particular reason uh why Healthcare any background in healthcare or perhaps in your family yeah no no background in the family um you know the a couple things happened

to me you know when I worked with with Walmart and Wendy's there was like 15 20 Brokers always in line to try to take over that account like if you didn't do a good job you were a commodity and and you got swapped out um when I was doing landlord work it was the same thing there was always another broker in line and then I started working in the healthc care space and I was I started on the landlord side of

things working for some very large medical uh landlords some REITs publicly traded companies you know the these Healthcare Providers were showing up to these properties and they were getting involved in negotiations without representation and I was just I was honestly astonished at how many Healthcare Providers were trying to figure out how to do a commercial real estate transaction um whereas you just you would never see that with a Starbucks or a Chipotle or a Wendy's like they just that doesn't work

they they always have representation they always have experts involved same thing like like large National like office groups like acked Martin or Charles Schwab like you never got a random call from someone who didn't know what they're doing and so I was on the landlord side of things and I was just taking call after call from doctors asking me really bad questions questions they shouldn't have been asking me they were saying things they were telling me motivations and things they shouldn't

have been telling people and I watched a number of healthcare providers just get completely crushed by some of these landlords and they didn't even know it was happening like they were signing up for these leases where they were overpaying by hundreds of thousands of dollars in like a five seven or 10 year period of time and for me I just I didn't it just didn't feel right like I just it you know every people should be smart enough to realize that

that whether you do your taxes properly or not if you do them wrong the IRS is going to come for you and make you fix it like people are smart to realize that if you break a law the police don't care if you didn't know about the law like you break a law like you're going to have to get a punishment that's that's that that that's warranted by the crime in commercial real estate these people are showing up and they had

no idea that there's Rules of Engagement they had no idea how much money is on the line they had no idea that a landlord will will take you for the highest amount of money they can take you for and so just they were just ignorant of the of the The Rules of Engagement so anyways long story short for me I had a number of deals where I worked on on the landlord side I watched doctors get completely manhandled and just said

you know what these guys need help and they need someone to to help protect their interests and they're incredibly intelligent clinically and medically and in the healthcare space they're just they have not had the training nor would they probably ever have training in commercial real estate and so I just I saw an opportunity there and I started doing a handful of tenant rep deals for healthcare and I started showing the doctors how much we'd saved them and how much you know

how much we protected them and and they were more appreciative and cared more than any deal that I ever worked on in the past for large National groups and so for me um might sound a little like altruistic or just I just I enjoyed it like I enjoyed the interaction I enjoyed the appreciation and you know just like a healthcare provider when you make a difference in someone's life like it it makes it worth it like it makes it you know

people have have tough days you have good days bad days but when you know that you truly made a difference in someone's life and that they truly appreciate and care about you it just makes you want to keep doing what you do and I just I got that feeling working it as a doctor I wasn't used to asking for help especially when it came to subjects outside of medicine but then I found physician coaches.com in an instant I found hundreds of

experts to help me in all aspects of Life on areas I was afraid to ask dealing with burnout starting a side gig money management even help with my marriage and the best part nearly all experts are Physicians themselves after reading their profile and a quick chat I knew I found the right Mentor for me at physician coaches.com help from professional colleagues is just a click [Music] away I I love it so let's let's first talk about um you know practice owner

and this is probably self- serving but I'm a practice owner I've got few locations on here you know we we usually we think about leasing but then you know recently been thinking about buying so what you know put put yourself maybe in in the in the Practice Center what should be what should we be thinking if we determining which way to go so the first thing I I would tell people is um you can always have a preference of I want

to lease or purchase but I would highly encourage people not to pre or not to make the full decision until you've gone to the market and here's why it's important you might you might be one of those people that says I onlye one a lease but there could be an amazing opportunity for you to purchase and it could totally change your your net worth your future the real estate could be worth even more than your practice and so you can be

missing out on this amazing opportunity to to increase your your situation financially or or be a better location or Better Property because you just said well I don't want to do that and the other side of the coins there too you can say hey I have to own but you might be obsessed with with choosing a property for ownership that might be inferior in location and quality um and attracting quality staff and patient referrals and so you know it's okay to

go into a transaction with a preference but you want to look at all your options like that's that's one of the the the biggest mistakes people make is they they fall in love with one property if they only look at a segment of the market and that's not a good strategy for truly understanding what options are available so so so knowing your options very important um when it comes to owning if every month you can cut a check and your net

worth will increase because you're paying down principal and after 15 20 years you've got a building paid for which could be worth you know a million and a half $2 millionar or more that's a tremendous way to to prepare for retirement tremendous way for you to build an additional asset U and again A lot of times that real estate is worth more than practice uh couple other things when you own real estate you get to also uh depreciate it so you

pick up additional tax seductions so most Healthcare Providers would say to you I'd love to find ways to save money on taxes to pay less in taxes owning commercial real estate is a really Savvy strategy to do that too so you know if you have a chance to own real estate you know it comes down to Concepts like do you have the down payment can you can you afford to get into the transaction if you can't well then then let's come

back to that idea in the future if you can let's go to the next concept are there good buildings available that you would like to be in for the next 10 15 years that are going to make your practice successful that you can see yourself being there is the size work does the location work did the neighboring tennis work you know that's a consideration um you know what's the cash flow on a monthly basis there's times when you say I've got

the down payment I like the property but you know to own this property is going to cost me 30,000 a month and I can lease for eight well you have to decide if it's worth the premium so on a cash flow basis does it pencil so you know long story short there's all these different things we're looking at and considering along the way and we got to make sure that we're checking the boxes if you miss one of those you can

find yourself in a really bad situation where you know your practice is suffering or your suffering financially or you're trying to undo a a very costly mistake so lot of reasons to purchase um great phenomenal way of Building Wealth uh the the Investments predicated upon you as a tenant are you going to pay your own rent to yourself you know most people say if I'm going to bet on anybody I'll bet on my own self or my own practice so that's

a great way to do it um and then on the other side you know people say well why would you want to leas uh flexibility you get a chance to to to move you don't get locked into one location landlord pays for a portion of your buildout they give you free rent they give you free buildout um you know there's flexibility and it just it helps you from a cash flow usually cost less to lease than own and so there's a

lot of things on the lease side that can be very attractive too so again that's why don't fall in love with one option go to market look at all your options and then make an informed decision based upon those criteria that's that was very helpful in you know is there a standard like down payment uh that that's usually required what and uh maybe you can talk about too is let's say you don't have enough is this can you get uh should

you be focused on on getting loans whether through the SBA you know getting Partners involved what what what do you think is is a good strategy to follow yeah that's great so I'll start by saying this um if you are a mainstream health care professional if you're a physician a veterinarian a dentist uh you know versus there's some ancillary Healthcare that's more health and wellness related but if you're in mainstream medical or healthc care there's a handful of lenders nationally that

specialize in healthare and every bank will will say they specialize in healthcare but there's some banks that truly specialize in healthcare not just like a tab on their website that says medical or Physicians but they actually that's all they have departments that do and those lenders uh they have an appetite for Lending to the medical community and so uh I would tell you typically those lenders are going to are going to do deals at 10% down and that they could be

an SBA loan but a lot of times they'll they'll do loans at 10% down um 20% down is going to probably be the highest you have to come to the table with for most transactions and then on the other side of the coin there's some some lenders that they'll do 100% financing and even if it's an SBA loan they'll they'll lend you the 10% for the 10% down payment for the SBA so if if you have an MD or a DDS

or a DVM at the end of your name you can probably get financing that other businesses cannot that restaurants or CPA or people that like that can't get so there's really attractive Landing opportunities uh that are available so it depends on the type of property depends on the the strength of your practice it depends on if it's your first location or if you're established again there's a lot of variables there but I would say you've got 10 to 20% down payment

available on the real estate not the buildout not the tenant improvements not the equipment but just the real estate itself um the odds are you're going to probably be able to find someone that can help you purchase that that property um with very favorable terms as someone who's currently renewing uh my lease right now I I I heard something that that you can help Healthcare Providers uh Pro maybe get put more money in their pocket the next time their renewal is

up you want to I'd like to hear lot more about that yeah that's a great question so the the number one transaction in all of commercial real estate whether it's for office industrial retail take all the different industry Specialties medical the number one transaction in all of Real Estate is the least renewal transaction every time you see someone put up a new office or a new location or move there's probably 10 to 20 leas renewals happening at the same time as

that one new location so it's the number one transaction and it's the number one transaction that landlords love because they they make more money on those transactions it costs them less to do those deals it's also the number one transaction where tenants specifically Healthcare Providers lose the most amount of money and so let me start by just setting the table most leases again we're talking like 98 99% of leases have an annual increase built into them okay you sign a lease

at like you know $20 a square foot or if you're in if you're in California it's a per square foot per month so $2 a square foot or $3 a square foot and then every year on the on the the the annual renewal date it increases up 3% or 4% or 5% there's some trigger mechanism which increases that leas rate and then other costs also go up too and so you sign a 10 lease that thing has nine increases in it

and so you might you might have started at like let's say a $20 lease rate and you finish that lease at 30 well the reality is in the vast majority of scenarios the market rents have not capped up with those increases the increases have outpaced the market the market rents and so people get to the end of the lease where they've been in their five seven or 10 years and the vast majority of those leases they are above the current asking

rate that a new tenant would pay or a landlord would be seeking to release that space in addition you have to understand that if if you are to move out of that space what does it cost the landlord to release that space they're gonna they're going to spend money on on on helping to build it out they're going to get free rent they're going to have a free buildout period they're going to have higher attorneys costs on a new lease than

they would on a on a lease renewal and there's all these other costs that go into a new lease that are a lot higher than on a lease renewal in addition they also have downtime that space could sit vacant for 6 12 or 18 months it's a lot of money a landlord has to lose or to win and so the the the like the underlining idea here is don't jump into a lease with your current landlord just to get it done

because the landlord has a lot of money they're will to invest in that deal if you're properly represented and if you have a strategy so most tenants will go to their current landlord and they'll say send me a proposal or what would you do for me if I'm want to stay and that sound sounds like a reasonable statement or question but it actually is not because you're you're indicating to the landlord I don't really want to move I don't have time

to hire someone that's why I'm talking to you versus an expert um I'm probably will to pay a premium and I'm not going to push you as hard as a new tenant would and so you don't think you're communicating that but you but you really are so the landlord goes into the transaction they hear the tenant respond with send me a proposal I don't want to move you know what would you do for me and the landlord thinks no down time

uh no uh very very minimal attorneys fees very minimal buildout or renovation no free I mean like they just go in there they start thinking I'm going to save a ton of money and they just they they come with terms that are usually not that competitive to the market versus if the landlord thinks hey Mike's got three or four other options he's already been to Market if he vacates my property this thing might sit vacant for 12 or 18 months I'm

going to lose a couple hundred thousand dollars I better get competitive so one strategy say says you go to your landlord says say send me a proposal ask some questions tell the landlord things you're not supposed to tell them the other strategy says hire an expert go to market look at your top options and then have your expert come to your landlord and say listen we know what a market lease rate looks like we know what other landlords are willing to

do we'd love to talk to you about what a lease renewal might look like but it's going to have to be competitive it's going to have to compete with other options because we can't we can't justify overpaying by a coule $100,000 over the next 10 years just because we've been here we're going to have to be more competitive and so the strategy is one where you have to take time to go to market you have to negotiate with other landlords you

should be hiring representation to help you and and the one strategy results in the landlord coming down on leash rate giving you free rent giving you TI allowance to renovate or update your space etc etc etc the other one the landlord hammers you and it basically assumes you're not going to move can't move don't know how to move Etc and so the net result of those deals it's a couple $ hundred, you either you either win and keep or you lose

and forfeit yeah I think you were try to talk with me about sending an email on a proposal you know in airspace we just recently left but I mean been all hesty we we found a better opportunity but I can certainly understand how having an expert you know come in and I I think now they're kind of you know they they they did accommodate somewhat but I think they could have accommodated a lot more and does sound like you know really

having expert who really knows you know the area and and what is the you know what other competition where could we go could have really come in handy so yeah thank you thank you for for sharing that um so I want to talk about um you know so we talked about leasing you know versus owning as a practice owner now let's just talk about investing as a number of my listeners are interested in real estate you know at the time of

this recording unfortunately real estate at least on the the residential side isn't as attractive with high rates I know you can't predict the future but tell me about the commercial real estate uh at the time of this recording yeah absolutely well let me let me start by talking about interest rates for one second because people right now are saying hey I'm gonna hold off on buying something that's fine if that's what you prefer to do I I would highly encourage people

not to let interest rates determine whether you do or don't transact or not because here's the reality if you look at a a if you look at a chart for where interest rates have been over the last 30 years they go up they come back down they go up they come back down we're at the highest they've been like in the last 25 30 years guess what they're going to come back down again okay so if you find a deal and

it makes sense right now and and it pencils right now even if you're paying more than you want to just you have to look at historically the odds of you paying this interest rate or a payment for this interest rate this high for more than a year and a half two years it would have to it have to Buck the trend of the last couple decades like yes they're high but they're already talking about bringing rates back back down again so

you know I we are encouraging anyone right now who's looking at deals don't sit on the sidelines just because the interests are high if it makes sense now you'll be refinancing in a year two or three and as long as you can afford it for the next two three years realize you're going to find yourself in a in a very different position in the near future um and so that being the case now if you can't afford the property because the

rates are too high then you do have to wait until the future um but in the commercial real estate market right now it's staying very very strong rather potential is definitely softening I could I could give you a bunch of stats showing you how how prices are coming down how inventory is going up how time at of Market is increasing but in the commercial real estate World um you know there is definitely some softening there's different areas but you know for

for class a retail um for medical space specifically it's staying very very consistent you know certain areas like Class B Class C office yes that's struggling right now big time but that also provides an opportunity like there's there's a lot of opportunity right now to go go out there and purchase Class B or Class C office because landlords are getting more motivated and there's more competitive pricing in that area so you know I'm an optimist I think there's always a deal

to be had um nothing wrong with being patient waiting on the sidelines but you know people that want to invest um there's still some deals out there and again if it pencils now it's going to really pencil in you know a year or two when rates go down two three four points and you're refinancing just like you did with your house I mean I I bought a house eight years ago and then I refinance a couple years ago and I I'm

my I think my main residence has a 2.1% interest rate on it like it's ridiculous like you know so if you're if you're paying seven or eights right now and it makes sense well you're going to have a chance at fives or fours or threes in the future so just you know don't don't turn off that as an opportunity in my personal opinion so so let's talk about Investors uh you know Physicians on the program we talk about increasing your net

worth you know uh develop more passive streams of income what's kind of a maybe you you can go through the process someone who's interested in commercial real estate what's kind of the step- by step what should they be thinking about you know um should they be looking around in their area what are there certain parts of the country they should be thinking of you know there's always you know a hot sector you know that that they should go into um lots

of information that they can get but coming from an expert what would you suggest uh kind of a step-by-step process they should be start thinking about commercial real estate okay I I'll give a couple of things here um number one the the easiest way to get involved in commercial real estate is a property that accommodates your own practice um so if you are a healthcare provider um that's going to be the the best way for you to get involved in commercial

real estate to start if you've never owned commercial real estate that's going to be your best way and here's why um you're going to get what we call owner user financing meaning that 0% down 5 10 15 maybe 20 whereas if you just go buy an investment property most lenders are going to look for you to put down probably 30 35 40% it's a very different um underwriting process when you're the when you're one of the the the tenants in a

property that you own the landlord or sorry the the lender is going to say look you can carry the property you are the maker break and as long as like your practice that's why they give you much better financing so now you might choose in a year or two that you want to sell that practice or that location or you want to lease the entire property out there's nothing that says that you can't lease all the out but if you use

your practice even if you're only occupying a portion of that building um that's going to put you in a place where you get much better financing with most lenders so that's a great way to get involved in it and I know you know we help a lot of healthcare providers that will buy real estate and then they'll they'll swap out the lease to another provider and as long as the numbers are there the lenders say hey we're fine let's go help

you do this again and and they want good quality deals and good quality loans so that's a great way to get involved um if you're looking at just purely from an investment standpoint you're not going to be um a tenant there um you you've got to surround yourself with experts and you've got to ask questions like if there's a problem am I going to be the person that's going over to see you know what's going on in the parking lot or

with the HVAC or am I going to have it professionally managed and so you know I'm a big fan of of of owning real estate in areas that you can get to accessibly versus you don't want to have to jump on a plane and and then you know go across the country or go figure it out if you can help it now I'm not saying don't buy a property across the country but again just practically speaking you know if you need

to get a different property manager if there ever is a big issue if something's broken and you want to see it before you agree to spend you know a couple hundred thousand do to fix it or 10,000 or whatever it's just nice to be able to drive down the street or get on the expressway and go see it whether it's half an hour hour away or it's right next door so I'm a big fan of of of proximity and then like

anything else you just you have to be willing to invest in the educational process like no one's going to start probably like taking stocks and investing randomly without taking time to understand what's happening to some extent it's the same thing in commercial real estate any investment mechanism if you're going to put legitimate amounts of money into it which if you're going to own real estate you're going to put tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions of dollars into it

you've got to take the time to become you know uh an expert in that area not overnight but you have to be willing to invest in the educational process or another way to say it is you got to be willing to invest in yourself you've got to be willing to invest in the terminology and properties are run and and how to capitalize and help them be worth more money like that takes time just like healthcare takes time or becoming a good

real estate agent takes time so you know if the quickest shortest route to commercial real estate ownerships through your practice and then if you do that you can get a on tenant property or one unit property where you're the only person there or you can go buy a retail Strip Center or a multi-tenant office building and maybe maybe you carry the day maybe you know you you carry the majority of the payment but you lease up other units people start subsidizing

the overall cost of it they're helping to build your net worth they're helping to pay down principal that's a great way to do it as well so again this has been tremendous and I could definitely see the benefit of hiring an expert so maybe you can talk about your company you know you know what exactly you do as an expert commercial real estate agent maybe you can cover that you know costs Etc so they can get uh more of a feel

about what you do or what the this type of work involves absolutely and so and I I'll say it a couple ways like look we have a national company we love to help as many Healthcare Providers as possible but if it's not us let it be somebody else and I think it's the same sentiment that a healthcare provider would say listen I'd love to take care of you but if it's not me go to someone else like don't not go to

a healthcare provider um if it's if it's a choice between you know one provider versus no one like go to the provider like don't self diagnose don't I mean again depending on what the situation is obviously but it's the same concept so we'd love to help you we have a nationwide company but the whole idea is that there's just a lot of money on the line and anybody can get a transaction done anybody can call on properties anybody can say send

me a proposal anybody can counter an offer the question is did you did you lose a couple ,000 getting that deal done just like any like anybody can pull out a tooth but you know an oral surgeon is probably better than a than a set of players at your own house like there's a there's a a right and a better way to do things so um you know he providers hire real estate agents they want to save time the average transaction

takes you know a couple dozen hours of time 30 40 hours you want to save time it's valuable you want to save money you don't want to overpay even by a couple thousand a year let alone by tens of thousands per year you want to capitalize um you want to avoid uh pitfalls and complications like you don't want to find out that that you have to replace the HVAC unit on your space because you didn't negotiate properly and you got to

spend $440,000 to replace a rooftop unit because you weren't paying attention to that negotiable item and at the end of the day you you want peace of mind like you want to know hey I I did the best I could with what I had and I don't have to regret my decision for the next 10 years and wait for my lease to expire to fix the problem that I could have avoided if I would have just called someone so lease renewals

purchases you know buying land Building buildings scaling anything with real estate there's going to be an adviser who can help you the process and then the one of the top questions comes up okay I like what you're saying this sounds good how much does it cost and that's one of the the best parts about about real estate as a whole so most industry standards whether it's residential or commercial has the landlords or sellers paying the Comm paying the commissions now there

can be exceptions to that but that's that's that's kind of how most most markets work I mean I can't say every Market but the vast majority of markets that's how it works and so you know if you go to buy a house it's very rare for the seller of the house this to tell you hey you have to pay your agent's commission now they have a commission set aside with their listing agent and that listing agent splits it with the buyer's

agent that's how it works if you show up without a broker or an agent the listing agent gets a double commission so just like residential real say you're not saving money if you're a buyer not having an agent you just helped the seller to make more money or you helped the listing agent get a double commission same thing commercial real estate and that's usually when people hear that like oh it's kind of a no-brainer then why would I not hire someone

it's exactly the same thing and I love analogies so I'll give you one if you have a patient who has an insurance policy that covers a certain amount of coverage or money per year and they haven't used all it they've met their deductibles they've met their out of pocket and there's money set aside there most Healthcare Providers call that patient and say listen let's get you in for this treatment or this procedure because it's a use it or lose it scenario

um Dent dentals like that like you know you pay for a certain amount of cover coverage per year you get it dentists are calling all their patients in November December saying hey come in and and let's do X Y and Z because you've got $500 sitting there if they don't come in that insurance company is not paying the the patient back they're not going to cut up a check for not using it and they're certainly not going to call the doctor

and say hey here's $500 for doing nothing the insurance company keeps that money it's the same thing in real estate you show up without a without a real estate agent that landlord just keeps the money or the listing broker keeps it so it's a it's a use it or lose it scenario you can hire representation um you can get expert advice counsel you can protect your interests save a lot of time and if you hire the right people they should give

you a very very positive result and you should not be paying for that service yeah and doctors were busy you know you're dealing with your own patients we got enough to worry about certainly if you want it did you know I always advise uh you know hiring an expert who knows what they're uh doing uh this has been amazing h where can people reach out to you if they want more information about you or or your company uh what's the best

place to to do that uh best place to get contact with us is our website and that is car. us so it's C rr. us um you can click in the upper right hand corner to find an agent in the city or Market that you're located in um you can click to get a free lease evaluation uh we have a resources tab if you want to get educated if you like to to self-educate and you want to watch videos read articles

we've got literally hundreds of of blogs videos faq's glosser so you don't have to become a commercial real estate professional but if you want to get educated in certain areas or just increase your skill set there we've got enough information to keep you busy for quite a long time all right so that's car. us we also put it into the show notes again thank you for dropping so much information on there I know there people are going to listen to this

again and again uh any last minute advice before we end the call today um you know I would just say just like a healthare provider would tell someone you know just to to take care of yourself like realize that that your health is is is your most prized commodity and don't take it for granted like don't overlook things that you could easily have taken care of it's it's similar in in you know Healthcare real estate you know don't don't overlook a

couple hundred, margin of negotiation like don't just assume it's going to work itself out or you know it'll be fine like give it the attention it deserves give it the the respect it deserves and then try to do the best you can with what you have all right well thank you again Colin car from car uh go check out his website car. us uh they experts in commercial real estate thanks again for joining us on the program today thanks Mike I

appreciate it and thank you for listening as always guys as an entrepreneur investor you're going to up some Downs in life uh as Colin said just take care of your health in in your personal health as well as in your business you'll do fine and just remember you'll have ups and downs but as always do something a little something each day to keep you closer to [Music] Lord