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Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Bootstrap MD, the podcast for physician and healthc care entrepreneurs. From time to time, I love to bring on guests who are in the trenches and either starting up their practice or helping doctors on their own practice. And I know in these days with so many marketing things out there, AI, you know, many of us doctors, we didn't have a background in marketing and sometimes we need a little help into letting us get to where we want to be and letting us reach out more patients. And I have an expert on the show today and I'm so glad to have her on.

She is the CEO of Heal at Scale. is the movement empowering health professionals to break free from burnout by turning one-on-one protocols into profitable group programs and online courses complete with coordinated lab testing and supplement sales. She's over a decade of experience behind the marketing success of leaders like Dr. Amy Meyers, Chris Kesser, Sarah Godfrey, Daniel Aemon, JJ Virgin, and she now champions everyday practitioners.

She's the author of the book Get Cash Pay Clients: How Upfront Labs: Create a Wildly Profitable Health Business with Less Work, and a leader of over 1,700 practitioners through her labs to lead summit. She has become a sought-after voice on scaling care without sacrificing impact or income. Today, we're going to meet with her. Her name is Joy Houston.

And Joy, welcome to the program. So glad to have you on. >> Thank you. And thank you for the kind introduction.

Happy to be here. All right. So, let's talk about it here. Your background.

How did you get started in all this? I always like to hear other people's journeys and how they get there. >> How did you get to become a leader of over 1,700 practitioners? >> Well, as the universe, God, whoever you want to worship as the magical love between us all, I really wanted to be a doctor, but I'm the type of person who passes out at blood and I can problem solve, but I just go down for the count as soon as anyone's bleeding.

And so in college I had a marketing minor and my mentors in the medical side of my education were like Joy I think you need to pursue that. So it ended up a magical full circle moment when we got to the point with our agency where all my favorite clients were the health practitioners and I was helping Dr. Dr. Sarah got with the hormone reset diet at the time and I was interviewing some of her clients to get their stories for you know fitting it into the sales page and the book and everything and one of the women sounded exactly how I was exper like her experience was exactly how I was feeling and of course Sarah lived in San Fran I live in San Diego so I was like I have to find someone local so I found a functional medicine practitioner who specialized in women's hormones at my age and she turned my life around saved my marriage my hair, everything.

Like, she was so good. And then at my 3-month followup with her, I was like, "This woman looks really stressed out." And she kind of looked like she was going to cry. And I said, "Hey, you've been so pitable in my life. Do you mind if I ask like, is everything cool today?

You look a little off." And us women sometimes will if we're stressed and then you ask us what's wrong. She started crying. And that's when she downloaded that she was paying her MA more than she was taking home from her practice and that she loved what she was doing. But she didn't know how the heck to get people and people should have been lining up around the door.

I mean, she turned my ass around in like under three months. So, I was like, "This is amazing. You need some of the same marketing tools that I'm using for all these big names for your clinic." That's when I saw that the hometown health heroes needed the same concepts from marketing, but they needed kind of like a Lego set. They needed something to be given to them.

Just like when you get a Lego set and every single page tells you exactly what Lego goes next to the next Lego, that kind of thing. I knew that they didn't ever want to be marketers. They didn't want to get good at that side of their business. So, I knew it would need to be plugandplay.

I knew all funnels would have to be built and customizable. I knew what I was getting into. And so I came home to my husband Travis, who you know, and I said, "Hey, I really want to help do a spin-off of our agency that only focuses on hometown health heroes everywhere." Because if somebody this talented is struggling to get people in the door, then how many other practitioners are really good at what they do, but they have no idea how to connect with people? And he was like, "Okay, babe.

If you want to do that and you can get it to a million in a certain span of time, then we'll focus resources from the agency into that. And that was the beginning of Heal at Scale. And yeah, we started with teaching people how to turn their favorite protocols into online programs and then doing back-end supplements. And now it's just a full-blown health business strategy and marketing movement.

>> I love it. And believe me, there's a lot of us out there that maybe a solo or maybe a small practice and talk to them every single day. a lot more competition that are out there. There's a lot of people vying for their health dollar from big tele medicine companies to the Kaisers of the world to even now like your local influencers.

I talked to a patient yesterday. She said, "I just bought a GLP1 from some gal in Tik Tok that was green." I was like, "Oh, don't do that." But especially with physicians, we have no marketing experience. We don't get any business experience in medical school. So just talk about your first few clients that you had and over time I'm sure you see the same problems again and again that you you keep hitting their head some things that you're seeing maybe the one who's been in practice for about 5 10 15 years and they're just having trouble connecting with and trying to reach new patients.

>> Yeah. >> Well I think in that span of time I know you're old school because if you know Frank Karns and you know all the marketing people who Travis knows the environment has completely changed you guys. like in the old school like when I was first starting with let's say Aean or JJ or any of those it was like we could do content first of all there was less competition okay so we could do content and we could go to a webinar and then that webinar could sell into something a book a product a coaching program even one-on-one care if you wanted to do that like back in the day that would work but now the algorithms are so dialed in to exactly how each one of us behaves online and we all behave a little bit differently. And the algorithms that these platforms are built on now are so clued into us and they're so committed to making money for the platform which means two things.

Keeping you the user and there's a reason you're called a user, okay? Keeping you the user on the platform for as long as possible and making as much money as they possibly can for their advertisers because they're adupported platforms. Okay, so back in the day it was just like you were either online or you were not online. Okay, but now that we're dealing with these algorithms, the biggest shift that I have seen between when I got started and what people have to do differently now is they used to be able to do free content on free platforms and then invite people to a free thingy.

And that free thingy could be a webinar and then webinar became uncool and we all decided we should call it a master class, right? and then maybe a guide or a PDF or a checklist. So, some sort of free thingy. So, everybody used to be able to go free content on free platforms to get some attention.

And then move those people into their CRM. Your CRM is just your platform, how you collect emails and have landing pages. That's your CRM. So, we used to make the jump from free content on free platforms to a free thingy, webinar guide, checklist, and that's how we pulled people into our CRM.

But lo and behold, as the algorithms have taken over, the quality of that list pulling people into our CRM has just gotten lower and lower and lower and our email open rates got lower and lower and lower. And how many of them actually open the email? Do they click and do they buy? Those stats started tanking, right?

And now that we know we're now doing free content on free platforms that is driven by an algorithm that knows whether you are one of the three types of things that their advertisers want. Are you a person who watches videos? Are you a person who downloads free stuff? Are you a person who buys stuff right there online?

Woo! Red shoes, pretty. I'll buy it now. Like the algorithm knows which one of those types of person you are.

Why does it know that? because it wants to keep its advertisers happy. And the advertisers can buy video views, they can buy conversions, right, which they get your email address, or they can buy sales. And so since we know the algorithm is so clued in to decide if your potential patients or clients are video viewers, downloaders, they just like to download free stuff, or if they actually are the kind who will actually buy.

If the algorithm knows that, what's different in modern marketing now is we need to use that information to our advantage. We need to stop with the free content on platforms leading to free things. You can still give away the free things, but give away the free things in chat, in Messenger, in your DMs, because then you're increasing time on site. You're making the algorithmic gods smile down upon you.

And then when you pull them into your CRM, we're going to ask for a small sale. In the old days, we would call that a tiny ticket offer. Some people call it a self-liquidating offer because we can spend as much on ads to recoup that expense, right? So, if our low ticket offer is $40 and we can spend $40 to acquire that customer, we're basically liquidating our ad spend and not really coming out of pocket for that money, but we're bringing in a higher quality lead.

So the biggest change between what I would have done 15 years ago or something to what I would do now is I would encourage you do your free content on your free platforms, give away your freebie things while you're chatting and sussing out if that person is a good lead. You guys, a lot of it can be automated with Manny chat or go highle platforms. Have integrations that can do that for you. And then let's have an actual community in our list, in our email list, in our CRM.

Let's have a community of buyers. I'll tell you that making that one switch in the last 18 months has been the most profitable switch for all of the practitioners in my mastermind and in my private client stable. >> It makes sense that back in the day when your husband and I were doing this and we learned from the gurus on there, give them free content, give them your best stuff on there. But then you've got a 50 plus year old lady and she's unhappy and she's crying and she knows her hormones and the doctor is saying it's in her head and giving her anti-depressants.

She doesn't want a 60-page PF to read. No, >> she wants to know what is going on or what is wrong with her. And so >> yeah, >> in your book you talk about upfront lab testing. >> Yes.

>> Yes. So tell me about that model. How does that work? And what can you share with us today?

Because I find that very intriguing. I'm starting to see a lot of it. I think some of the bigger names are starting to blur that this lab testing. There's something to it.

So, I want to hear from you. >> Yeah. So, I boil it down in the book to the simplest possible formula and I call it symptoms plus science equals sales. So, let's start with symptoms and then we'll move on to the other two.

So, in order to stop the scroll, y'all are going to need to stop talking about diagnosis and inflammation and all those things that we want to geek out about as the medical professionals, okay? We need to stop assuming that our clients know the impact of inflammation or hormone imbalance or autoimmune. They might not know that any of those things are at play. We know because we like to geek out and we're medically smart, okay?

But they do not know. So when I say symptoms, you talk about their pain points in the same exact language that they would talk about to their best girlfriend or their mate at the bar if it's a guy, right? The things that they would talk about at the gym together. I want you to stop the scroll by talking about symptoms in the patient's natural language.

Okay? So that's symptoms. Okay? So we address the symptoms.

Okay? Then we move on to science. So symptoms plus science. science.

After you've stopped the scroll with their symptoms and their language, now you can get geeky. Now we can talk about the system of the body that might be experiencing something. We can talk about the role of inflammation. We can talk about possibilities of hormone imbalance or autoimmune or any other thing that we want to be talking about.

Okay? So now you can get geeky. You stop the scroll by talking their symptoms in their own language. Then the science is your time to say, "Hey, that's you.

Lean on in and let's have a talk about that." You get to show off your knowledge so you look like an expert. Okay? And then you get to connect the dots between their symptoms and what might be going on, right? So you look like the expert, you're turning the lights on to the problem that they're experiencing.

And then the other part is equal sales. Okay? So what you can do is at the point where you've stopped the scroll with the symptoms, you've shared the science of what might be going on, what symptom of the body or what system of the body might need a little investigation here, why that might be happening to them. Then you can simply call out the elephant in the room, which is that, hey, I'm not your doctor.

I'm not even your health coach, right? I don't even want to be your Instagram guru. I don't want any of that. But what I do want is I want you to have access to the same lab test that I use for my own patients and clients.

And so I've made it so that the lab will give you direct access to that test. And when you invest in that test for yourself, I will provide you some support while you're waiting for results. And I'll even give a lab test explanation video that helps you understand each bullet point on that test. So now what you've done is you've stopped the scroll because you weren't speaking medical ease, right?

You were actually speaking English like normal people do when they complain to their friends. You did the science, right? So symptoms plus science. You get to show off your knowledge, reveal which system of the body might need investigated and then you invite them to a sale, not some 3K, 5K, 7K package to work with you with 10 months.

Okay? By the way, that's the relationship equivalent of walking up to a stranger and being like, "Let's get married. It's just psycho and it's not going to work." Okay? So instead of asking them to make a huge investment to work with you for a long period of time, you've asked for a very small investment, one lab test.

Okay, this is not all the panels that you run on your patients or clients. It's just one test that is likely to illuminate a few little things that might be out of sorts, right? And then once you've made that initial sale, now they're in your CRM, not as a freebie seeker, not as a tire kicker, but as a person who actually was committed enough to put in money to get the data they need to drive smart decisions about their health. Okay, so here's where this gets crazy, you guys.

The average practitioner that puts this into play, their enrollment rates on their free consults are typically under 30%. 30% or under, okay? after they have the lab test, right? So, now we have a committed buyer.

They've said, "Yes, I will come cash out of pocket and pay for a lab. Yay." Okay. They got helpful content from you in that marketing golden hour that happens between when they bought the test and when the test results came in. There's you right in the middle of that time showing up with helpful information, okay?

Calming their nerves. Remember, you guys don't get nervous when you order tests because you do it all the time. But clients are nervous when they order tests. They're anxious.

They're uneasy. They want the results. So, if you can show up as their little superhero between while they're waiting for the test results, you become the obvious choice if and when there's something on that lab test that looks like it needs attention. Okay?

And then you can do what's called a lab explanation video. In this video, you say, "Hey, look, I'm not your patient. I'm not your doctor. You're not my patient." Okay?

But you invested in this test and I'm going to explain every single marker on this test. And as I do, I'm going to share stories. I'm going to change the names, but I'm going to share stories of my patients and clients. So, you might see some of yourself in these stories as we go through.

That way, you get a full return on your investment because you understand what each of these integrators mean. And I'll share stories that will help you assess yourself. And then at the end of this video, if you want to have your labs interpreted by me, we can book a private interpretation session and we can talk about what your labs reveal. And if you need help resolving the problems that we find, of course, I'll present those to you.

But obviously there's no obligation. And so they you show off your knowledge, right? Because you talking through the test that they have is showing off your specific knowledge in the specific situation that they're experiencing, right? Because if they wanted that lab, they probably have something going on in that particular system of the body.

Okay? And so then when they get on what used to be a free consult, okay? Now they're paying for that private interpretation session. And typically, and this is old school marketing, we would want to say, "Hey, normally when I do a lab review session, it's $500, but because you're the type of proactive person who is investigating their own labs, I'm going to give that to you for $250 or whatever." So, what used to be a free consult becomes a paid interpretation when they pay attention.

Yes. So, they show up for the call. They don't ghost you and then the time is wasted, right? They show up for the call and then on that call, if you do the book a call funnel properly, the appointment set up properly, they've already told you how they're feeling, what they're complaining, what they've tried, right?

So, you don't waste any of your time listening to them moan about what's happened and what they've tried and all the time they've wasted. We protect your time fully. and you show up on the call and you would say to me, "Hey, Joy, it looks like you're experiencing some changes in your skin and hair, some changes in your mid-center belly area, and that your libido and your drive is completely missing. Is that right?" So, instead of having them talk for hours about what's going on, you're simply recapping and confirming this is what's going on with them because they already told you.

That protects your time. Okay. how would you like to look at the labs together so that we can see if we can find some explanations in the science here about why you might be experiencing these things? >> Of course, they're going to say yes.

Right? And then when you point out the problems, you say you're not alone. These are the type of clients that I love serving. This is what I've dedicated my life to.

Would you like to see the process, blueprint, protocol, method, whatever you call your awesome protocol that I have used in the past to help people get results? Of course, they're on the call with you. They're going to say yes. and then you show them.

I like it when you have a visual reference for what you do because most of you will kill the sale by overwhelming them with information. Whereas, if we simply say, "I have a three-phase process. Phase one is this. Phase two is this.

Phase three is this." And we boil it down to what looks like its most simplest components, they can say, "Okay, yeah, I get that. One, two, three. That's easy. We boil it down to simple components." And then you can let them know, would you like to know the way that you can implement this protocol with me?

They're going to say yes. And then you present to them, this is what it looks like to work with me privately for three months. This is what it looks like to join my rolling evergreen group program. And if you get the sense they're not going to get either one, of course, you could default to an invisible but hidden.

Okay, this is important because I want to protect the value of your brand. You can resort to an invisible third option, which would be like your DIY program, which is your live rolling evergreen group program, but it's just been recorded and they only have access to that. They can't come to the live Q&A. but you might recoup any time you spent on the funnel from that prospect.

So that's how this is working for the practitioners in my mastermind and the readers of the book and all the 1700 people who decided they were going to lead with labs on the summit with me. >> That's awesome. And I know people are listening to this and are just taking amazing notes on here. What I like about this is it sounds like a lot of the work here is done online.

We haven't said you have to come into my office. You got to drive to my office. You got to go and get your blood drawn. You never seen me before.

And then a week from now, we're going to call you. You can do this online, right? They can just go and give them a lab order and they can get it done, right? >> Yes.

As a matter of fact, the clients are typically using this as a nationwide offer as opposed to I'm licensed in this state. So, I think we should pause and make a clarification here that we always have a brick wall like an impenetrable brick wall that even the Hulk or the Kool-Aid Man cannot walk through. Okay, there is a brick wall between over here on this side we have our patients who have come into our clinic. They have signed their HIPPA compliance form, their insurance forms, every single form that you have and they are a patient.

And those patients get prescriptions. They get labs ordered under your license. They get diagnostics run. Okay?

Those people are your patients. That's not what we're talking about with the using Upfront Labs as a client acquisition tool. >> When we're using Upfront Labs as a client acquisition tool, we're way over here on the other side of the brick wall, which means inherently you should have two business entities. a business entity for your in-cl clinic offers and a business entity for your online client acquisition strategies.

Whenever we use labs on this side of the wall, the entity that is doing client acquisition in the very ubiquitous all around the world online space, that means inherently we do not want to be ordering those labs on our license, do we? No, we don't. because that could give the perception of care just like writing a prescription on a pad and giving it to someone gives the perception of care. So we want to protect ourselves from that.

No perception of care. So on the clinic side, you use your own lab order account. On the client acquisition online, you just open a separate account. So if you're at Aexia or Rupa or DHA or whoever you're ordering your labs through, you want a nice clean separate account, right?

with that online entity that you use for client acquisition. By the way, all of your online programs, your book, your supplements, your online coaching versus patient care, that needs to be in a separate entity anyways, you guys. So, if you're not familiar with that, like I can make legal recommendations. Lisa Frolley is really good at it.

There's people who are good in that space. She's my favorite. But that is a completely different offer. So, we have a separate lab account.

And the lab accounts don't care. They know like they've been sponsors on my summits. They're all down with this because basically it's good for them, you guys. Because here's what you used to do.

You used to try to put out content and do marketing and then gather people's emails and nurture people and then do a sales call. And maybe if you were lucky enough to close that call, you would be ordering labs. What I am asking you to do is put the labs way up front at the top of the funnel where you're talking to more people, which what does that mean for the lab companies? Higher volume of lab sales, right?

So, they're completely on board with this. They know what we're doing here. They're 100% in support of it because it helps them make more money. Okay.

So, you want a separate lab account. And on that lab account, you are always choosing an option that you may have ignored before. And that option is to use a signing position that is actually the ordering position of that lab. So, technically, you are not ordering that lab.

You are just linking people through to an open door for the public to be able to buy this lab publicly thanks to you. Does that make sense? >> Makes sense. And I think that clarifies a lot of confusion that I have with working with physicians and for some who are licensed in one state but then they want to start their own online program.

And we try to make that distinction. Hey, you can start your course but you are not their physician. You are not actively treating for them. you're giving this for information only.

So, I do appreciate you making that distinction. That is very important. Thank you. >> Super important.

So, if I walk into your clinic, I'm signing a bunch of forms and I'm paying through a different merchant account, right? And in our online courses, when they buy that course in the checkout form, the terms and conditions, all that terms and conditions, you should have very clear liability disclaimers. This is education and information for the purpose of navigating your own health. All that is very clear when they buy the coaching program.

Okay? And it goes through a completely separate merchant account. Okay? So all of that nice and clean and clear and separate.

The one thing and there's great information in the book and your audience by the way can have the book for free. They can go to getcashpayclients. So getcaspclients.com and they can put in the code woo-ing 26. The W and the M are capitalized, but the other letters are lowercase.

So, Woo-Ming 26, and you guys will get it for free. So, just go ahead and go through the process like you're going to buy it and put in your credit card, but then when you get to the coupon code, you'll put that in and it won't cost you a darn thing. I want you to have this book because there's an entire chapter based on that legal separation. And whether or not you decide to lead with Upfront Labs as a client acquisition tool, that chapter is a really good reminder with a very trusted expert in the online health and wellness space.

And she's been doing it for over a decade. You guys, she's amazing. So that clarification has to be there. So they are, even though it doesn't feel like it, they are in their terms and conditions when they're buying your online program.

They're agreeing to a different relationship with you. It is not a diagnostic relationship. It is an educational relationship. super important.

>> That is great. And again, thank you for that because I believe I purchased that book already. So, you guys are getting a real good deal. I my research on there.

So, it's good stuff and we're excited to start implementing all of this. >> I love it. Well, you helped me hit number one. So, thank you.

I'm grateful. >> There you go. I'm looking for my receipt right now. I'm going to get it signed.

I'm in San Diego, too, if you don't know. Um, no. >> Yeah. >> To kidnap you and take you out for lunch.

>> Yeah. Country. No. So, he reached out to me too.

So, he's the one that before we got this started, we were pretty good. I want to talk about group programs because that where we get a lot of inquiries about group programs. What have you seen? What have you seen when working with your practitioners?

And what have you seen in terms of like actual revenue generation? How big is it for a potential doctor to go into this? because they have a lot of interest due to it, not a lot of few vaccine yet. >> Oh, they haven't implemented.

Okay. So, I'm gonna give you an example. Dr. Taylor Dukes of Taylor Dukes Wellness, she had a three-month weight list.

So, she was really good at helping people resolve their gut health challenges. And she was also pregnant. So, she was like, "Wait, I've got a two-month weight list. I got a baby on the way.

I want to be helping people. I'm a helper. I'm a giver. I want to help more people." But just life is happening, right?

And so even though she had hired another nurse practitioner to work in her clinic, which meant more malpractice and more office staff, she just wasn't getting an exponential return on that investment. So she came to me and she was like, "I want to do a group program. I know I want to do it." She had worked for Amy Myers when we were helping Amy move into the online space. So she was like, "I know you're the right person for me.

Let's go. What should I do a group program about?" And I said, "Well, a group program can't be general. It has to be a specific thing that solves a specific problem. what's your favorite?

And she's fixing the gut is my favorite because I was in Doctors Without Borders and I got a parasite and I didn't know it and I was so sick for so long and I should have, would have, could have. I wish, you know, hindsight is 2020, that kind of thing. So, she's like, I have a gut protocol that I put all of my gut troubled clients on and I'm like, perfect. That would be your group program.

So, she took that program. The program was called Get Your Gut Right. And it included a stool test and six weeks of a program with her with one call a week. So one call a week midday.

I think she did Wednesdays. And she launched it to her audience. She had under 15k people on Instagram at that time. And she had less than 2,000 people on her email list.

And she made a half a million dollar. She made $526,000 in a two week and two day promotional timeline. So meaning the time that we posted the first post to we had the webinar to we closed cart. She did the first program live.

It wasn't a rolling evergreen. It was like we all start at the same time, we all end at the same time. So she did her first launch was $526,000 and she capped it. So some people will take the group like relatively big.

She was like, "Okay, I'm capping it because I've never done this before. I feel nervous." So she wanted to cap hers at 250 people and then she had a few like my husband wants to do it or my kid wants to do it. Can they come in? And so she had a few stragglers in and so that's how she got up and over.

So sky's the limit on this. And then we have people who were like I don't want to do as much promotion. I don't want to be an Instagram princess. I want to slow my roll a little bit.

And we have people who bring in 15 20k extra from doing a rolling evergreen group program. And the reason that they're able to add that on is what we ask them to do is like bump up your private client package. So let's say your protocol rolls out over three months, 12 weeks. Okay?

If they would typically work with you for let's say 5K for that three months or 7K for that three months, let's bump that price up to 10K and then let's offer the group program so that the juxtiposition between hey you can pay privately to work with me oneon-one or you can come into a community of people who are struggling with the exact same problem as you. they totally get it. And we're going to have a private support group and I'm going to walk you through the exact same protocol that I use for my 10K clients, but it's only 1,500 bucks and it's one call a week. And you're refining as you go based on how your body responds.

And the vast majority of people will be like, "Same result for 1,500 or 2K instead of 10K. Sign me up all day long." And then only if there's any issues with price push back on the one-on-one or the cash pay would then the person on that call say, you know, this brand is so committed to people having this information that there is a DIY course. But of course, the DIY course can only come after you've done your live group program one time. >> I love it.

Joy, the time has flown by and I'm still taking notes and we're gonna have to get you on again for for someone listening this they have their practice or maybe they're starting up their practice >> and they're looking in more about what you do. What's the best place? We gave the link to the book. >> We can do that again.

Get cash pay uh clients. Is that right? >> So get cashbclients.com. That's honestly the best entry point to see if you even are willing to do what it takes to create a leveraged offer.

Like that book is going to be the litmus test for you of like do I want to do this? Am I committed to this? What does it take? It'll get legal things.

The section with Lisa Frolley will help you understand some of that stuff. Understanding what it takes to have that whole thing automated because obviously you heard me mention some videos, right? Like a lab explanation video, a lab test video, right? How many clients have you ever sent the GI kit at home and they pour out the preservative water?

Stupid stuff like that. So, we want a video that walks them through how to do it. Am I Are you the type who's willing to show up on camera? Because if you're not, like the heal scale processes won't work for you.

So, get caspclients.com book, especially since you guys get it for free, is perfect. If you want to connect with us and see what we offer and what we do, our website is healscale.com. >> Healscale.com. Perfect.

Perfect. Joy, this is amazing. I know this is going to be an episode they're going to want to listen to again and again and again. Final thoughts before we end the call today.

>> Yeah. Final thoughts is if there is one thing that you take away from this that would protect you, okay? It's make that switch from free content on free platforms to bringing them in your world through a free webinar or a free thing. Free content on free platforms.

do any of the free things in the chat, in the DMs, in the messages, in the comments, and then pull low ticket buyers into your world. That will change the quality of your life. That one change. Okay?

And if you need more ways, if you're like, Joy, the lap test funnel is not for me. I'm intimidated by that. I'll tell you the top as my closing gift. I'll tell you the top three performing low ticket offers to do this.

Number one by far is a book, okay? And that's because it's under 20 bucks. So just by volume, people will buy it, right? So do it as a book.

Put your protocol into a book. The second one is a paid workshop. Okay? A paid workshop that accomplishes one small step on their journey.

Has to be accomplishable. Okay? A paid workshop under 100 bucks. And then the third is the lab test funnel.

So those are my three favorites. Low ticket offers. So instead of offering your 10K package, your expensive thing, go free content on free platforms. Give your free stuff away in the chat, in the DMs, in Messenger, that kind of thing.

That lets you qualify and get better favor from the algorithm. And then make a low ticket offer. You want buyers in your world, you guys. You don't want tire kickers.

You don't want to be wasting your time. You want quality people who realize cash pay care is where it's at. >> Mic drop. Thank you so much, Joy.

It has been great. Thank you for coming on. Tell Travis I said hi. And thank you our listeners again.

As an entrepreneur, you're going to have your ups and your downs. Do something a little each day to get you closer to your goals and keep moving forward.